It wouldn’t be fair to single out one tragedy and define an entire movement by it – so don’t get me wrong, that’s not what I’m trying to do here. But the fact is that I come into contact with people every day who’ve been rendered totally helpless and hopeless by the recovery culture. Certainly, everyone who undergoes an intervention and treatment on the A&E network’s popular television show Intervention doesn’t commit suicide, but this guy in the video below did, and maybe we should think about what he was taught in rehab. His case is the extreme example and outcome of what I see in people who’ve been involved in the recovery culture daily. Check the video of this recent local news report (I saved the video and put it up on my youtube account because someone already removed a clip of his Intervention episode, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the original of this news report video gets taken down too):
Notice what Dillon says at the end of the video:
I did more drugs when I got back from rehab, than I did before I went in, because, I wasn’t done using”
To Dillon’s parents: so did I, and so have countless people. The reason for this may be related to the fact that when you go to rehab, it gets pounded into your head that “you’re not done yet” or that “you haven’t had enough” or that “you haven’t hit rock bottom yet.” In some sense, even though he was in control of his actions, your son may have been a victim of beliefs that were taught to him by the very people who were supposed to be helping him. Personally, I was told relentlessly at my first rehab that I hadn’t had enough yet, wasn’t done yet, and that I’d be shooting up soon – and I conformed to that message, starting to use drugs intravenously within a week of leaving rehab!
The next part of Dillon’s statement which is instructive is this:
Shortly after that I realized that I had no power over my addiction whatsoever.
This too is a major message of the recovery culture – it’s their cornerstone – Powerlessness – Disease – etc. They never stop talking about it. They teach people that they will always be addicts, that they will always crave drugs for the rest of their lives, and that there is no escaping it, but only trudging through life resisting and coping with it one day at a time.
People use drugs and alcohol because they derive some pleasure from it – bottom line. This is a simple explanation, and provides an out for the person who feels they might need a change – explore your options and choose to find a life that makes you happier than excessive substance use. Instead of this though, when we send people to rehab we teach them that they must hit rock bottom, that they’re powerless, and that a disease is causing their behavior. All of this leaves them in a terrifyingly incomprehensible world. They learn to be helpless. They learn that they can’t change.
Suicide is something people choose because they believe it will be better than continuing living. They’re hopeless that life can get any better. Does anyone think that maybe when you teach someone that they can’t control their own behavior, yet their behavior is leading to constant miserable consequences, that maybe they might be behaving very logically when they subsequently decide to kill themselves?
Don’t get me wrong please. I’m not saying Dillon should’ve killed himself. I’m only saying that from his perspective, with the beliefs he’d learned, it made sense. In reality, it doesn’t make sense – because in reality, his addiction was not a disease, and he didn’t need to be stuck with it for the rest of his life. He could’ve learned a view of addiction that made sense and was helpful, if he’d been exposed to some other ideas.
I constantly receive angry emails from people incredulously asking why I would bash the recovery culture, from now on, I’ll refer to this post as my reason. I want to help people avoid Dillon’s fate. I want them to know that they’re not doomed, and that they can solve their problems. Teaching people that they’re powerless, and convincing them that their behavior is caused by an imaginary disease does not help. It hurts.
I believe there has been at least one other person featured in this series who committed suicide at some point after rehab. I think his name was Chris, and I remember seeing his domestic partner interviewed in the news after it happened.
Side note. I’d also point to the genius writer David Foster Wallace, who was heavily ensconsced in 12-Steppism and did a stint in rehab back when he was a grad student. Very famous and tragic (but when aren’t they tragic?) suicide of the past few years. No one has looked at the angle, but I wonder how much of his suicide can be linked to the self-destructive doctrines he held so dear from AA/MA/NA.
Whoever wrote this article is a fucking idiot and I hope they relapse and die
Why are you so cruel? Your sick to want someone dead who needs help! You need God in your life!!!
Self destructive doctrines???…your misinformed. Ask yourself honestly was it the disease of addiction that killed him or aa/na principles. Blaming someones death on the principles of AA is laughable. if they were in active addiction and were addicts rather than abusers, it gets worse never better
What about the others who have successfully completed the rehabs they have started through this program? I think it’s more than 100. So, if we use your logic at looking at how A&E subjects have performed after rehab to judge it’s efficacy, then rehab is indeed successful since the success rate of those on this show is somewhere around 90 percent judging by the numbers I’ve seen. I have a relative who has just returned from rehab and is doing better than he has ever done. I don’t know that I believe addiction is a disease but to suggest the addicted should just go on until they are done doing what they are going to do is to suggest that their loved ones should just continue to bear the worst of their behavior. Therapy, at the very least, can help.
Frau,
My first few sentences of the post should indicate that I’m not trying to “prove” anything logically with this post – it was meant to provoke meaningful thought and discussion only, and not to serve as proof of any particular claims. I didn’t use this case to “judge it’s [rehab’s] efficacy”, as you stated.
I’m sure there are plenty of people who’ve been on the show who’ve done well. Natural recovery rates being so high, any group of people with this problem who make a quit attempt should have many successes. What’s more, it’s been shown that simply having researchers check in with people, can raise success rates. Now imagine having an entire tv crew document your plight – that may also raise success rates – or perhaps it installs a crushing pressure! I won’t pretend to know.
What I do know, is that regardless of A&E’s rates, there are much more scientific studies out there, done on exponentially larger groups which say that treated groups generally don’t fair better than untreated groups in the end.
– Steven Slate
THIS IS YOUR COMMENT!!! “People use drugs and alcohol because they derive some pleasure from it – bottom line.” REALLY? I know for a fact that you have never had an addiction problem!!! Unfortunately, this man’s untreated addiction took his life!! I was addicted to alcohol for 16 years, and prescription drugs for 5 years! Guess what??? Before I entered my road to recovery with AA, I got no pleasure from either! They simply did not work anymore, but my body could not go without them!! OH, and by the way, I have never been arrested for anything!!! People commit suicide everyday, and yes it is very tragic! But last time I checked, commiting suicide was a choice!!! I never chose to ruin my familys’ lives with my addiction, but I did choose to get help for it!!! In order to stay sober, AA members need to work their program as suggested in the Big Book! If there is deviation to this, they will not stay sober and their addiction will KILL THEM!!!–BOTTOM LINE!!!
Ohhh. You’re pulling the “real addict” card… You must not know anything about this site’s author. You don’t seem terribly bright either.
Derek
Wow Derek! You have a way with words! How can I be bright when I am so developmentally disabled???
Also; although you never “chose” to ruin your family’s life with your addiction, you chose to continue partaking in a problematic pattern of behavior which is well known to have such potential consequences (which I’m sure you’ve always been well aware of). No one “chooses” to kill another driver on the road when they step into a car after drinking; but it’s a foreseeable potential consequence.
AA has been known to convince its followers that alcohol was no fun and just made them completely miserable; truth is, while it may have become less enjoyable over time to get drunk, the alcoholic chooses to continue drinking because he believes (mistakenly or not) that his lifestyle of drinking will provide him more personal fulfillment than an alternative lifestyle (or at least will bring the least misery, of all his potential life paths). As the author emphasizes in other pieces, drug use is a purpose driven behavior. It’s not involuntary, it’s not a compulsion, you were never powerless over it.
Lastly, you seem to confuse the concept of psychological/emotion dependence (i.e. addiction) with physiological dependence…
Who am I hurting being powerless over drugs and alcohol? I don’t plan on using them anymore, so who cares! I’m powerless! Does it pain you that I am powerless over drugs and alcohol, Derek?
Who am I hurting believing in God? Whether it was a coincidence or because of AA that when I started to believe in God, I quit! Who cares? Does it pain you that I believe in God, Derek?
Don’t you get it? Reread my post – those of us who are against the disease and powerlessness concepts want to help people from feeling hopeless, helpless, and doomed – such as Dillon probably felt.
No one says you’re hurting anyone by believing what you believe – but when an entire industry with monopolistic powers (you can only “treat” people for addiction, while teaching an alternative non-disease view is very nearly outlawed by regulatory agencies) teaches people these beliefs and directs them into a subculture which promotes them as the only way to look at substance use problems – then that is hurtful.
It’s not about you, it’s about the harm caused by teaching these beliefs.
I do get it, and I don’t believe it is about me. I just happen to disagree with you and your stand on 12 step. It is extremely difficult for me to see 12 steps as hurtful or harmful, when it has changed my life so drastically. I know your going to say, it was my decision I made not the program. But whatever, if it was, I still go. Reading other peoples posts, I do understand that 12 step facilitation does not work for everyone, but it is an option, and does help millions. There are so many variables to the stat garbage. Here is one for you though. I am not sure on the stats for CBT or anything else for that matter, but in my CBT rehab, out of 20 people only 2 of us are still sober, and both of us attend 12 step.
Yes powerlessness is a scary concept for humans. We try to be in control of everything from day one. That’s why I tried countless times to stop drinking. Changing my life, how much I drank, when I drank… But I could not stay sober. It wasn’t until I surrendered to “something greater than me” and conceded to my innermost self that when it came to drinking alcohol, I WAS POWERLESS. The program of AA talks about powerlessness and unmanageability interchangeably. And these concepts do not only apply to alcohol. It applies to anything that when, taken or used, and your life becomes unmanageable because of that use or behavior, then it’s time to look at how much control we have over it. There is no shame in being powerless over something. It’s when we admit that we are… That we can gain some level of control…not over that thing but our behavior. If I break out in hives every time I eat strawberries and I’m miserable, why would I keep trying to eat them over and over again? Might as well admit I’m powerless over my desire to eat strawberries and surrender….and stop eating them.
I got a lot out of my 18 months in AA and NA. By listening to others who gave so freely of their stories and hugs, I learned about myself and why I did it. I do miss the open sharing at the meetings, all the girl talk. Where else do people share so openly about their humanity? The downside is, that I started paying more attention to the pre-reading meetings and found them so wrong. So I thought: What is the point of going to meetings to rehash the past and powerlessness and disease, when the addiction was a choice anyway? There is nothing wrong with me. As I got better and figured out why I had done it, I was less interested in hanging out with people who saw themselves as defective (however sweet they were!), and more interested in hanging out with people whose lives were going somewhere.
I don’t take issue with your belief in God. This has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
“I’m powerless! Does it pain you that I am powerless over drugs and alcohol..”
This is what I’m referring to. In what way are you “powerless” over drugs and alcohol? Are you suggesting that your body consumes these substances against your own will?
I fought hard to be a casual drinker, and wanted to quit on my own, but when I get involved with drugs and alcohol, it always won. I have no control once I start drinking and using. I just simply can’t, won’t, and don’t stop!
But the thing is you CAN. “Just for today”- Every time you do this it’s because you can, will and do stop yourself. Per your own example you tried casually drinking…okay, well you can’t casually drink. It impedes your judgement and triggers something in you. You in some way shape or form don’t want to say no (after you’ve said yes and taken that drink). This indicates to me that although you said you didn’t “enjoy drinking” you still received a reward from it…Rewards are not always pleasant. Rewards can be the reward of familiarity, comfort, consistency, false sense of security, relaxation, ease in social situations, escape from what plagues an individual…and so on….So point is, there is always a reason an addict feels they cannot stop but ultimately it does seem overly simplified to neglect that a choice has to be made from getting the substance, preparing it, picking it up and ultimately putting it in the body…in those steps is where addicts are often taught they are powerless. I don’t believe that, I think it’s EXTREMELY hard for them to calm the demons in their head or go against their will to use but still, there is ALWAYS a choice.
The disease trip is bullshit. Theres nothing keeping people doing drugs except pain and pleasure. Drug use is a symptom maybe but not a disease. I speak from experience. Spent 20 yrs drinking smokin weed meth coke etc. Coke did grip tightly but it was my dignity that stopped me. It was my choice. Didnt need anyone to help me. It ran its course and id had enough. Diseases dont work that way.
I understand what you’re trying to say, I think. AA is NOT for everyone. I am an alcoholic and I was extremely put off by AA. The cult-like meetings, the “Bible,” the jargon, the idea that I am somehow irrevocably broken and that if I don’t do exactly what “they” say exactly how “they” say, my doom is lurking around the next corner liquor store. I didn’t like the idea of having a sponsor, and to be truthful I didn’t relish the idea of hanging around people just as rotten as I was. I have been sober for years, but AA was definitely not a helpful part of that and it angers me that AA is so pervasive that everyone just assumes that if it doesn’t work for you there’s something wrong with YOU.
Try telling that to Matt…
What Steven offered regarding recovery rates is correct: “There are much more scientific studies out there, done on exponentially larger groups which say that treated groups generally don’t fair better than untreated groups in the end”.
This is not to be confused with him implying that people should not engage inpatient/outpatient treatment.
It’s just not that complicated-His point. It’s just a ‘fact’. As in, it hinges on ‘evidence’… ‘actual’…’can be proven’.
Why is it we find ourselves ‘all lathered up’ by facts? Here are couple of knowns in my experiences related to recovery. And… I would/could call them ‘facts’…It’s just that it’s not likely that I’m going to be able to produce reasonable evidence -in this forum anyway-supporting what I describe. But, here is: I know people who utilize 12 step facilitation to support and inspire their healthy change process in recovery. It works… for them. And that’s great. But, I also have seen a number of individuals who ended up developing increased ‘clinical’ signs of destabilization, stress, anxiety, depression and lessening sense of self efficacy as a result of their participation in 12 step peer groups.
I don’t personally believe this result was so much a product of faulty advisements, i.e ‘the steps’ themselves. I think these examples had more to do with exposure to what existed as – or perhaps evolved into- a ‘toxic group dynamic’ surfacing from what was originally a collective goal of well-intentioned implementation of 12-step philosophy.
I’m suggesting that these kinds of “12 step-was-not-at-all-a-good-fit-for-me” incidences/results as more of a product of those toxic, but influential, personality types that seem to inevitability surface in many a group dynamic-regardless of the groups stated purpose/mission. These toxi-fied folks -and we’ve all seen these kinds of people- will subtly shift the energy in a group away from the intended goal or mission, (in this case the merits of TSF (12 step facilitation) to more resemble that of a platform/structure used to serve the insecurities/ego of the one or a few dominant, self-serving influencers in the group. And, this can prove to result in rendering the peer group intent/methodologies/philosophies ineffective for some individuals…. all the way to resulting in serving as the catalyst for serious harm to individuals participating in these groups.
I think the merit of the steps themselves (some of which I am very comfortable to say that I believe need to be re-tooled/reworded as a result of evidence-based advances in neuroscience in the last 3 decades) are often eclipsed by the toxic agendas of ‘some’ of the individuals who end up in AA peer groups, or other similar peer-based groups. And, we know there are those who are more vulnerable to the toxicity that can surface in these groups.
To be clear…I think most of the time these toxic-types have no clue that they are part of the problem within the group dynamic…or that they influence harmful -rather than helpful-results experienced by folks who are just trying ‘something’ recommended, read about/heard about as a ‘potential’ resource for support…Folks just doing what they can think to do in hope of discovery of ‘their’ path to problem-solving toward a better quality of life for self, and also in consideration of their families/loved ones. Nope…. To the contrary these toxic ‘groupers’ usually truly believe that they are somehow ‘ordained’ in ‘service’ to others by a ‘higher calling’- and will often state as much.
But, here’s the thing…When an individual or group demonstrates a need to announce/state that they are called on by a ‘higher authority’ to serve humanity then…. they probably are not ;0) It’s reasonable to suggest that if, indeed, one (as well as a collective group of individuals) is truly anointed in that way, then they wouldn’t need to depend on the stating of such in order to convince/recruit others.
When it is suggested or implied by a 12 step subscriber that “in the case that 12 step does not work for someone, the reason is the person just “didn’t follow the steps”- that’s usually an unfortunate indication that they are one of the more vulnerable, toxified by a dominant, negative ‘influencer’ in their peer group. Another tell is when they imply that ‘no other resource’ will ‘truly’ end up helping them to sustainable recovery. And, that it’s “only a matter of time before they fail and become active, hopeless drunks and addicts once more”. And that, we all know, is just a load of crap. So guard your perspectives…’Toxi-fieds’ live to find the open window to crawl through, undetected, to set up their agendas in someone else’s brain space.
We need to get proficient at sniffin’ out this type of tainted dynamic in groups early on -‘before’ investing precious energies – like hope, heart and time. Your inner wisdom will guide you about that stuff. When you tune to that wisdom, it alerts you that something’s just ‘off’ somehow. Then, you can simply ‘detach’ and move on to that something that will be a good source of support for you….Whether that support is a peer-related support resource or some other resource you choose to implement. Do your own research. There are a lot of helps/supports/tools available to us in the journey. Menu of options….That’s the ticket!
So, I’m just positing that it may not be so much about so-called flaws of the Big Book/12 steps themselves in 12 step facilitation, as much as it is a flaw in ‘some’ percentage of the people who have developed in their life times- as a result of ‘family of origin issues’ and/or genetically heritable personality issues, a penchant to use group energies/dynamics for their own unhealthy motives.
Cognitive behaviorally based supports/resources have a naturally occurring defense that repels these toxic, types…You won’t usually find these troubled personalities hanging around (at least not for long) in cognitive-based programs/forums. ‘Cognitive’ will not provide the fatty calories that ‘feed’ that fear/catastrophic-based thinking/ prophesying that results from compromised self image, and very depleted sense of self-efficacy.
There are complex reasons why 12 step peers groups seem to attract these toxic types. For the record: I’ve seen very healthy, well-functioning group dynamics in 12 step groups, too. These healthier groups typically occur, and are sustained, when there is a very dedicated, socially aware, collective group consciousness about disallowing these toxic types to influence negatively or misuse/misrepresent the 12 step traditions.
This filtering process occurs by the collective group/its individuals by encouraging these troubled types along in emotional maturity and self efficacy -but doing so ‘always’ in a spirit of informed compassion and respect. That ‘evident-at-all times’ compassion and respect is the tell of a healthy group dynamic/supporter -no matter what methodology/philosophy is being utilized by them in the name of recovery.
When you have people reporting that they were ‘off put’ or that they felt ‘uncomfortable’ as a result of by their experience in a peer group…that’s a good indication that the group dynamic is/was tainted.
But, the fact that these kinds of group dynamics/people exist is not reason to stop trying the ‘next’ something that will support your recovery goals. So, when needed…Try ‘something else’. Trust your inner wisdom. You’ll know when it’s time to move on to that something else. And keep doing just that until it happens that that ‘something else’ inspires and fuels the change you hope for. It’s a process that takes as long as it takes.
You have the ability to make the change you desire. We all have that innate ability. Avoid comparing your journey/your change process to anyone else’s. Rather…utilize others, such as family members/peer groups/friends, as a source of inspiration and encouragement toward ‘your’ continually evolving hopes/goals about recovery. And, if those people around you are not proving to support and encourage ‘your’ innate, creative problem-solving ability…Well, then, they are NOT helping you -despite their self-serving declarations of magnanimous cardinal virtue ;0).
Simple solution: Respectfully kick these toxic types out of your sphere of influence…Or at a minimum, limit your exposure to them. Get real choosy about what and who you allow in your ‘head space’. Because it is a worthy, deserving space…even if it’s in somewhat of a renovation process:0) Besides…All of our head spaces should be in some form of reno aimed at expansion:0) That’s what we are here for…GROWTH
Can you provide proof of what you’re saying PLEASE. If you have read the studies please provide them so we know you’re not just blowing smoke.
While it is easy to say anything providing the proof helps your readers to see that you’re not just making things up. And anyone can agree and say yes there are studies out there providing you proof. So why not provide us with the studies you claim are out there….
Thank you! That was one of the most consise…thoughtful and balanced descriptions of what we who are unhelped by 12 Step…AA programs experience that I have ever read. That is it. That is what I am now working to regain a sense of myself and my life from. For a year and a half I have been told that I am POWERLESS over not just alcohol but everything…everybody…every thought (so dont think) and I need to pray for my Higher Power to save my miserable ass from…my Self. I have been criticized…manipulated and controlled by very power addicted so called sponsors who ultimately used me as their new fix. I was conditioned to rely totally on them…break ties with family and tell them my every thought and deed. They knew I had a history of depression…suicide attempt and anxiety. Yet after a year and a half of indoctrination my sponsors informed me that I had “the look of one who is close to death” and almost a month ago my sponsor called and suddenly FIRED me as I cried like a baby. http://www.LeavingAA.com
Wow @ Matt’s comment. You know for a fact that Mr. Slate has never had an addiction problem? I feel so badly for you, Matt. You didn’t ask for my pity, but you have it just the same.
Jonas,
You can have it back now. Thanks for giving it to me.
Matt
So, Matt, if you care to answer, do you think he’s making it all up or something? Or do you only define people addiction problems as either still using or in AA?
Nope!
Jonas,
Nope!
Matt
“Nope” as in you won’t answer? Or nope as in you have some other definition of addiction than what I suggested?
Jonas,
I guess both questions are right. If I get into a long winded discussion, I will just be wasting my time, because whoever analyzes it will pick it apart and try to make me feel like an idiot. I am not going to give them the gratification. i don’t care anymore! if your sober or are controlling your usage; then good for you. I don’t care how you got there. You just did! That is all that should matter! That’s why I think this site blows> there is no focus on the solution; just bashing! Can’t wait to here the response.
Matt
This whole thing started because you said that you knew for a fact that some other person on a website never had an addiction problem. So you must be using some utterly bizarre definition of either the word “know,” the word “fact,” or the word “addiction.” Or some combination thereof. It is incomprehensible to me how AA gets people to say things like this. It’s like you’re just bitter that others are getting well without AA or something. It seems like the common AA response of “They never really had The Disease, then” when you tell an AAer about someone who get clean without AA.
Jonas,
You Betcha!
Matt
Matt – What does that even mean? Are you agreeing that anyone who gets well without AA didn’t have The Disease?
Jonas,
Whatever you spin it and want it to mean, buddy.
Matt
And the award for most passive-aggressive conversation goes to………….. Matt & Jonas!
Congratulations! 😉
Thanks Steven! That means a lot coming from you.
I would first, like to thank God for this amazing award…
Yeah – My mistake for trying to engage Matt the Clown and his impenetrable Serenity.
If a person sincerely gives the NA/AA or any other 12-step program a try and doesn’t like it, your misery will promptly be refunded. It works if you work it.
Hello every one. In my early recovery I watched the the episode of INTERVENTION that Dillon was featured in. At this time I was a resident in a Sober Living. I eventually was offered a the position of managing that Sober Living. One day I received a call from A&E inviting our house guest’s to the filming of INTERVENTION Reunion – they would be filming a “where are they now” type show. Here is the link to the show trailer http://www.aetv.com/intervention/video/after-treatment-reunion-special.
The original episode that Dillon was by far my favorite INTERVENTION episode. he reminds me of Woody Harrelson in the movie “Natural Born Killers. The scene where Dillion is at the dinner table with his family and he says to his mom ” embarrass me in front of my family and I will make you cry” DAMM, this guys is real psychopath. After the watching this episode the 20 or more house guest’s at the sober living had a house meeting to discuss this episode of INTERVENTION. Question that was asked – how would Dillon’s life pan out long term? Since Dylan was rejecting the 12 step support group I did not feel good about his long term recovery.
Fast forward to the day of the show filming in Hollywood. Man oh man! The guest are introduced and holly smokes Dillion is one of the show guest’s!!! Some of the audience was allowed to ask the show’s featured guest questions regarding sobriety and recovery! Wow, i was one of the first to step up and make a request. Guess what I got to ask Dillon a question! I got to look this man in the eye and ask him if he felt he had the answers or strategy for his long term recovery – he answered by that he did not and but prayed that he would find the answers.
At the end of the show I was able to shake his hand (and his mom’s) and say hello and wish him the best. UNFREAKING believable.
Today I was curious about Dillon, I do a Google search and find out his fate. It’s very sad that this story ended so tragically.
Having worked with hundreds of residents managing two 25 bed sober livings I’ve unfortunately seen dozens of people tragically loose their lives to their addiction.
Thanks for letting me share 😉 RIP Dillon,
P.S. One the house guest’s that i worked with Tiffany also ended up being featured on A&E Intervention. I’m pretty much beside my self reflecting on this whole situation. Tiffany’s episode is here http://www.aetv.com/intervention/video/nik-tiffany
I think it’s important that no matter what view everyone here has, you can not INFALLIBLY separate out case by case what minute aspects of an individuals/addicts personality, psychological makeup, internal wiring, memories, etc are going to lead them down Path A vs. Path B—regardless of how great of help they’ve had or effort they’ve put in. Also, the AA/NA programs/ 12 steps are one method and should not be considered the ONLY method because there isn’t ONE THING that is best for everyone (For a way out example- even water, there have been cases of people allergic to water..”Aquagenic urticaria”…there is no one perfect thing that will work for everyone). 12 steps will speak to some and be the right fit for them… for others it won’t. That’s simple logic. And the alternatives, whether self recovery or some other method are just the same- it will work for some and not for others. I guess like most things in life, it just is what it is. Even under the influence or with some mental illness working against them, a person or the individuals around them can only try to pick the best method for success. It may not work. It may. It just is what it is.
I read your original post and some, but not all, of the comments and responses.
So first my 18 year old child is currently in a 12 month treatment program of which a PART is NA. I have never once heard a mentor, therapist, teacher or other person in this facility talk about hitting bottom, always being an addict etc. Rather the program has focused on her self esteem. From rock climbing to volunteer work. From helping her take college classes to helping her manage her anger it’s about making small steps so that she is proud of herself and as that hole in her shrinks her desire to use does as well.
She does, by choice, attend NA meetings daily…and she absolutely does get those ‘addiction culture’ messages. Yet she feels deeply attached to the meetings. I was allowed to visit her and take her for a week. She asked to attend NA meetings at the town we spent a week in. She asked that I attend. I can completely see your point and can agree with it. I don’t want her, at 18, to spend the rest of her life calling herself an addict. But when she tells me that if were to pick up again, even a single hit of pot, that she believes it would only be a short while till she went back down the rabbit hole I believe her. So let her call herself helpless and knowing she is let her be afraid to go down that route. We are all afraid of something. Let her be afraid of drugs.
Does that make sense?
Last night she called and apologized to her sister. The most heartfelt and honest apology I have ever heard from anyone. If this is because of NA then bless them because her poor sister deserved to hear it.
I picked this program for my child specifically because it tries to help the whole person. I may have taken a second mortgage on my house for it but that apology is worth working an extra job.
I would suggest that the research and statistics on relapse from AA and NA alone support your thesis. Simply being drug free without deeply understanding how you got there and filling that emptiness with yourself is not the best solution. It isn’t NA, or a higher power or anything else that makes you better. It is feeling confident and good about yourself. If NA and god helps you get there …good. If cheese wiz and kittens do it, fine by me.
I will continue to attend meetings here because it helps support my kid. But the culture you describe is accurate and just a little to simple for my taste.
Thanks for the thoughtful post.
J.
I just don’t see how you can correctly assert that his suicide was because of the recovery process or directly correlated to it, rather than his addiction. The same thing was said about Dr. Drew’s Rehab show because people who don’t know a lot about addiction or addicted people said it was the fault of the show, rather than the just what happens in addiction and addicted people. The fact is 80-95% of addicted people will never fully recover, depending on what studies/info you believe. I can list you 30 people right off the top of my head I personally knew who have died because of addiction. Maybe there needs to better recovery models, or more effective treatment, but the fact is, right now it’s not available. Maybe something to strive for developing? But right now, that’s all there is and really it’s someone’s only shot. There’s a lot fewer people dying in sobriety than dying in active addiction.
Hi! I love what you wrote. I’ve my entire life struggled with various eating disorders and have gone to different rehabilitation centers. While there I learned A Lot but also learned things I never knew about like how to use cocaine, heroin, and several other drugs. When I came home I even started to experiment with these new drugs to help stay skinny. Although, I have friends who have benefited from rehabs and the step program, personally as to what (I think) you’re saying, rehab treatments are not for everyone. Thank you for being honest! Much love to all
The 12 steps of recovery are the only proven method for long term recovery.I didn’t make that up .Treatment centers are businesses they are not AA.My addiction was to alleviate pain .the more pain I felt the more I used.the more I used the more painful my life felt.I AM powerless over alcohol and drugs ,once I start I can’t stop .PERIOD.Never been arrested ,no criminal record I was dying on the inside.The 12 steps are where you find the power to recover from a hopeless state of mind and body,to tap into a power greater than myself because I couldn’t keep me sober.ABSTINANCE is not SOBRIETY
Right….. Because people relapse and go overboard because of treatment, not because they’re addicted…. Because don’t blame the disease people, blame the recovery process that has a significant success rate…. Because being honest with an addict clearly only serves to MAKE them use again.
Wake up.
Relapses happen. They are tragic but common among recovering addicts. Overusing on a relapse is also as common. It has nothing to do with the information being provided during recovery and more to do with the fact that the disease of addiction took over, if only momentarily.
Relapses just happen? How so? By the disease? There is literally no coherent scientific explanation for this. The disease model is pure faith, it has never been proven.
Also, the recovery process “has a significant success rate…..”. Which recovery process is that, 12 step programs? Words and ideas. When you think it’s worked, you attribute success to those words and ideas, but when it doesn’t work, then it’s just “relapse happen” and “the disease of addiction took over”??? You are full of nonsense.
Make your own website and spew your nonsense there,
Steven Slate
the author of this article and website.
I’ve enjoyed a steady drug and alcohol habit for 25 years or so…really enjoy most of it, except for the occasional panic attack. It’s not a disease at all for me. I chose to get high or drunk mostly due to boredom or escapism from the real world. I have no children (by choice – eww-gross) and own my own house free and clear (thanks rich family). I don’t really have to pay for drugs either – trade for what I need.
All that said, I have sobered up for months at a time, and get immersed in hobbies, health, etc…but after a while I get bored and just want to get a buzz. I have been lucky never to get caught drunk driving or busted, but there have been close calls (fuc* pigs). I have, however, hurt and annoyed a lot of people verbally/emotionally over the years when I get really drunk.
Here’s how I see it – if you’re going to do drugs or be a drunk, own up to it. Whether you embrace or loath the addiction(s), don’t credit or blame them on some bogus disease that can only be cured by a mythical sky-dwelling God.
P.S. – how do people still believe in religion in this day and age?
Lots of people here claiming to know about AA/NA who do not understand it at all. Sad evidence of selective listening.
12 step programs don’t say the person will always crave drugs/alcohol. I suppose some people do, but for many the craving just vanishes. Now, does that mean I never ever wish I could have a beer at a BBQ or football game? Don’t be stupid. Of course I wish I could do that. Who doesn’t want what used to be fun and what normal people can do?! But is that a “craving”? I hardly think so. It sorta sucks, for a few minutes, once in a while.
12 step programs *do* say that the underlying brain/body process doesn’t reverse itself once the addiction sets in. They’ve based this on watching too many people try the at-home version of the experiment. Are there probably some people for whom it is untrue? Sure. There are also some people who contact HIV and never get sick, and some who have cancerous tumors that spontaneously disappear. Do I want to bet my life, without any real evidence, that I’m that one in a million person? Frankly, if I think having a beer once in a while is worth the kinds of risks I was running, it’s not unfair for people to declare me insane.
And here’s where we get to that “powerless” thing:
12 step programs don’t say the person has no power over his or her actions. Rather, they say that once the addicted person starts back up with drugs/alcohol, that person has little to no ability to control what is going to happen next. Most people can say, oh, I’ll have a couple of beers and then call it a night. The alcoholic might do it that way, a few times. But then there will be a time that it’s 12 beers and some shots and can-you-guys-tell-me-what-happened-to-my-car. That’s the kind of control that goes away when addiction has set in.
Loss of control is a myth used to scare people out of drinking and drugging. If you wish to continue to try to scare yourself out of drinking, do not read this article: Do Addicts and Alcoholics Lose Control?
The “alcoholic” wants to be very drunk/continually buzzed or whatever their form of excess is. They may pay lip service to the idea of being a moderate drinker, but if they still prefer getting trashed, and start drinking, they’ll probably choose to keep drinking until they get trashed. Those who haven’t evolved their drinking preferences won’t evolve their drinking beyond that point. But it is entirely possible to evolve your drinking preferences. Here is an article on Moderation.
Best,
Steven
Heres how strong addiction or dependency ISNT.
I have a body full of metal, degenerative bones, well acquainted with Arthr..etc.
I was taking 80mg of oxycontin a day for 5 yrs. I decided I no longer wanted to pay exorbitant monetary costs.
I quit in 3 days WHILE ON A VACATION touring museums. Didnt feel great but certainly wasnt debilitating.
Addiction is a choice, not a disease. Until people accept this, they are the “once an addict always an addict”. I have compassion for addicts but knowing how their games work, I give them no excuses.
I could drink or snort people under the table, did so for a couple decades. I walked away from anything I was doing like it was taking out a bag of trash. Im not a non drinker, I dont drink often but have no problem having it when I want. The drugs I stopped when my son was born 13 yrs ago and have had no desire to do them. I have recently started using medical marijuana for my pain.
I say all this not to brag, but to shake a son of a bitch by the collar and say “wake up asshole!! Time to grow up take ownership of yourself and your actions and quit blaming your bullshit on anything other than yourself.
I also grew up heavily mentally and physically abused. I have plenty of baggage to blame addiction for.
Wow Anthony!
You’re pretty cool. I was not abused in any way, shape or form. I was addicted to just about everything, tho. Why don’t you come over and we will see who can such the most fentanyl patches, and drink as much as we can until one of us is dead?
Anthony…Maybe your had the choice to quit , but I didn’t.
Steve…New digs again. I like it! Gotta stay ahead of the fashion police.
Love ya,
Matt
I am cool. Just as cool as you.
You most certainly ALWAYS have a choice. The choosing comes when you CHOOSE to clean yourself up. If rehab is what it takes, CHOOSE rehab.
Its not about being cool. It is about responsibility, maturity and self control. Its about proving what a human can do and sharing that so maybe it empowers others to do the same. Just because I don’t sugarcoat doesn’t make me a dick.
I think it’s disingenious to assign blame for Dillon’s suicide without being privy to what was going on in his mind and the family dynamics at play. In fact, you make no mention of his bipolar disorder he may or may not have been taking medication for at the time of his death, yet that could easily have been a major factor. I’m surprised no one here hasn’t mentioned it.
I TOTALLY AGREE. While there are factors such as genetics, predisposition, trauma, and mental illness, the recovery culture needs a drastic overhaul. People need to start taking personal responsibility and stop allowing “professionals” to find a million different excuses for PERSONAL CHOICES (in MOST cases). You’re also introduced to “friends” in recovery with whom you often stay in contact and sometimes those people aren’t the best connections to maintain. I never even CONSIDERED shooting up until I went to detox and attended groups in which people would go on and on about how it was the “best feeling ever” to inject, and I learned about “speedballs” and different ways to use drugs that would never have crossed my mind most likely. I think the approach to recovery needs to be more individualized. Perhaps patients could be put in homes with people who just don’t and never have used or drunk and who just lead normal lives with different activities to learn, but the patients could still go to individual doctors’ appointments and counseling sessions for their own personal mental health issues. Rest In Peace to Dillon and everyone else lost to addiction.
Amen!